[Rob]

You're not coming across harsh at all Dorris.

When I read your last post I thought about hooking you up with the Samaritans, it's not that grim. Paul explained the costs as compared to an alky car and if some of us can put a string of runs together without damaging stuff people might view it (nitro) from a different perspective.

The glass isn't always half empty.

[torment]

Well..the tre kroner car is for sale on eurodragster. ..

Can anyone lend me a few quid.??

[ahensman]

Here's a suggestion.
Just borrow a whole lotta notes and get this 5.7 second/250mph Chi-town Hustler tribute nitro nostalgia funny car (see extract from on-line ad, below). At today's exchange, I think this comes in at about 50,000 pounds sterling plus shipment and import duties. I'm guessing you could be the star of the show for somewhere between 60 and 80 thousand pounds. Don't kid yourselves into thinking Nostalgia racing is a low budget sport. If you're debating about the cost before you start, you probably shouldn't be considering it.

Competitive Nitro nostalgia F/C racing don't come cheap, even on this side of the pond. Those guys you see at Bakersfield and elsewhere have a whole lot of dough tied up in those rigs and just as much cost incurred to run them. Just like any class that started as a "show" class, it's got kinda expensive which probably means the fields will start to whittle down to those who can really afford it. Enjoy it while it lasts!

It's not Nostalgia, but Warren Johnson recently put a cost to running a Pro-Stock car for the full NHRA season presently at around US$ 3-million (just under 2-million quid). Only a few years ago, teams were running the same (or expanded) seasons on less than a million. Competitive Drag Racing anywhere is expensive, even here in the US.

Bottom line to me is that UK drag racing needs to encompass everything it has rather than dream about the things that might be. It was like that when I raced and it will still be like it unless there's a serious influx of cash from some big sponsors. Lack of serious money is one reason Sprinting has had over 80 years of history in the UK. Because it's man and machine against the clock without the competition element.

Time will only tell, but UK racing has a habit of shooting itself in the foot. Remember the ultra competitive Pro-Stock car class until the high-dollar London and Brooklyn Heavies (actually US Super Stockers)turned up and ran rings around the competition until no-one wanted to play with them any more? End of Pro-Stock!
Then there was the Pro-Comp debacle where just about anyone who turned up with a seemingly fast car was thrown into one class. Funnies, Alterds, Dragsters, Nitro or Methanol... they were all in there fighting together.

You want to have a full nostalgia field? Run blown Alky and Injected Nitro cars. If you want the nitro car to look blown, install a dummy blower over the injectors. Most spectators wouldn't know the difference between nitric acid fumes coming out of a blown or injected motor. To them it still smells like nitro!

(From Racingjunk.com)
5.7's 250MPH Nostalgia Nitro Funny car
Ad #182072502 Posted:2013-12-08 14:53:14
This ad expires in 75 days.
$75,000.00


Will be on display at the PRI show in Indy in the IHRA booth
Above Added: Sun December 8, 2013, 3:20 pm EST
Turn Key 5.7's 250mph car for sale. 1979 Omni body, Canode chassis, all certed & ready for 2014. Call for details.
Troy Martin 574-268-8292[/b][/u]


Seller Phone Number: (574) 268-8292
This item is USED
Trades ACCEPTED: [/color]

[Rat_Fink_67]

Nobody has got a gun to their head being forced to do anything they don't want to do - if it doesn't take off then so be it. And as an aside, if somebody is under the illusion that running in a (potentially) 5 second heads-up eliminator is cheap then they may be better off playing darts or tiddlywinks instead anyway.

The class is designed to carry out the transition of the nostalgia funny cars from demonstrations, to racing - and racing doesn't come for pocket money whether it's Super Gas or Top Fuel. Regardless of whether it's nitro, methanol or home brew knocked up in the garden shed, the people that are negative and derogatory towards something that hasn't even happened yet (and won't for another few years) wouldn't run in it whatever the fuel. Maybe British drag racing isn't flourishing, but I'd put to the table that the situation is as much associated with attitude as it is money.

Paul and Rob have built and operated cars that fit the regulations, and have both stated that done sensibly you can operate a nitro car within a relatively comfortable percentage of a methanol burner - yet there are still people that seemingly think a tank of nitro will plunge everyone within a 20ft ordnance in to some form of financial and mechanical apocolypse.

If people want to run injected nitro cars or even a hopped up milkfloat then that's fine, but from 2016 the rules are black and white.

[Rob]

Good evening Andy

No arguments here, that's a cheap car, around $20,000 less than a competitive Comp Eliminator Small Block engine and you get the whole deal.

You're obviously a smart guy. I started racing a year or two after the demise of U.K. Pro Stock but I believe your forensic analysis of it's demise to be painfully accurate. I suspect your prediction regarding NFC fields in the U.S. will prove equally so. Referring to Pro Comp as a debacle was a little harsh, the Tor Line deal was some of the best stuff I've ever seen in the U.K. but I suppose that by the time it finished your description has some merit.

Nobody in their right mind is going to argue with you about the potential for escalating costs in any 'Heads Up' eliminator. The only sure way to keep it in check is with an E.T. format or a Bracket. One of the main issues with Pro Comp was balancing the myriad of combinations, somebody always felt cheated. As I understand it, NHRA's take was to split the Dragsters from the Funny Cars and tell the Altereds to go somewhere else. At about the same time they also informed all the Pro Stock teams to forget all about running their 'rinky dink' Small Blocks on different weight breaks and start building 500" Big Blocks that would all run at 2,350lbs, a format that has lasted over 30 years.

It would appear, from my perspective, that NHRA had concluded balancing multiple engine/weight combinations was not workable and this is something I have come to agree with. The idea of following NHRA Heritage regulations for the NFC's was to allow people to tap into a wide database and make informed decisions. I feel no particular affection towards 6-71 blowers or 21 gpm pumps but that is what's being produced, developed and sold both new and used.

I'm going to proceed on the basis that Bill Gates isn't getting ready to campaign an NFC in the U.K., If he is, I'll still try and enjoy the ride.

Have a good day ( evening ? )

Rob

[PaulS]

quote="ahensman"]You want to have a full nostalgia field? Run blown Alky and Injected Nitro cars[/quote]

So that'd be Pro Comp

Then there was the Pro-Comp debacle where just about anyone who turned up with a seemingly fast car was thrown into one class. Funnies, Altereds, Dragsters, Nitro or Methanol... they were all in there fighting together.

I am somewhat confused at why you would recommend something which (in your words) was a debacle.

An injected Nitro car (in my opinion) is an even more tricky combination to get right as although you do not have forced induction you do have a higher static compression and as you probably know that with Nitro being a monopropellant all you need to add is a high compressive force to start the combustion process - whether the cylinder is in the firing position or not.

Competitive Nitro nostalgia F/C racing don't come cheap

Neither - as has been pointed out - does any form of racing sub 7 seconds, ask some of the guys running Pro Mod / Pro Stock / Super Pro / Comp Eliminator.

Bottom line to me is that UK drag racing needs to encompass everything it has

I thought that this was the point of actually having an NFC class to "encompass what it has" - there are two completed Nitro cars in the UK with another three (that I know of) approaching completion, two in Sweden (admittedly 1 is up for sale) and one car in Austria that will be Nitro by the time the rules come into effect so to be two years away from the start of a class that isn't such a bad car count, so if it is such a bad idea why are all these people putting cars together ?.

[Rob]

If we can get past the could we should we debate I've no objection to posting up some data from the Funny Car. There's nothing spectacular, the car hasn't run to the 1/8th yet, but it might help to put some markers down.
It looks like this topic has been viewed over 1200 times and only a few people have commented. Perhaps a few will find it of interest.

I'm a bit crap with a computer but I'll give it a go

[Rob]

That wasn't too tough, these computers might catch on ( Paul )....

This was the last time we ran the car. Tim was on the throttle for a little over 3 seconds and just made the 1 - 2 shift, it went 1.08 at 60' and 2.83 at 330'. The green line is fuel flow, red is engine rpm and yellow is boost. The vertical white line indicates the point on the trace that the values above display.
Up to now, our engine speed has never exceeded 8,200.

I'm out for the rest of the day but if anyone wants anything else posted up let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Have a good day

Rob

[jaytee]

It looks like this topic has been viewed over 1200 times and only a few people have commented. Perhaps a few will find it of interest.

Rob I'm just an innocent bystander but appreciate all the info added to this topic and look forward hopefully to seeing the class take off

[torment]

Im looking at getting a data logger for my funny car...rob, just looking at that one trace has convinced me to get one. ..

This has to be the most informative thread on the net today..thanks to rob.paul and andy for sharing this with us.